Groupset Straight Talk

The odd truth about bikes is they’re mostly the same.  There are only a few tube sets, only a few component manufacturers, only so many variations on design.  Most of what drives the price of a bike is perception.  You’ll often see bike ads touting their group sets as a price point, but what does that all mean?  There are so many variables, so many hierarchies.  So, presented below are what it would take for you to put together a full group set of the most common marquee brands, when culled entirely from Ebay “buy it now” options. 

                So, some words.  Don’t “buy it now” because you can almost always get it cheaper by bidding.  Also, I don’t think a full group is all that desirable and am much more likely to mix and match to my own tastes and value.  I looked for items that were ready to bolt onto your bike, and leaned to vintage, but group sets were not assembled from the same year or incarnation just simply what it would take to honestly say “full whatever” in a CL ad.  I priced Rear and Front* Deraillers, shifters and brake levers** (or brifters where applicable,) brakes and cranks.  When someone puts up an exorbitantly priced bike heavily promoting the group set subtract these figures to see what you’re really paying for the frame.  This represents a single day looking on ebay so of course prices will vary but I’ll bet not by much, shipping has been included.  And like I said, a SINGLE day on a whim on ebay so don’t ever let anyone say the word rare to you about any of this stuff.   *why there is such a thing as tiered front derailleurs I will never know when a cheapo microshift front mech works just as well as grand jubilee.  **again, what the hell?  Tektro makes my all time favorite most comfortable levers and they’re dirt cheap, sub $20 new.

Campy Chorus – Can be yours for $530.  The brifters wrack up the most at $185, cranks second at $150, rear derailler could be had for $80, brakes $70, and front $45.  A whole group set package was available for $600 including a bottom bracket. 

Super Record - $812.  $350 for the cranks (and you’ll kick yourself in a minute if you buy them), $165 brakes, $140 for rear, $80 front (seriously, madness) $40 levers, $37 shifters.  But a bargain $630 full group was available.

Nuovo Record - $384.  Oddly enough the brakes were the scale tippers at $110, $100 cranks, $60 rear, $45 levers, $35 front, $34 levers. You could either spend $700 on a full package with no cranks or $280 on one with no brakes or levers.

Athena - $357 $105 cranks, $80 brifters, $75 rear, $65 brakes, $32 front.  $1000 for a new in box group package.

Shimano.  There’s lots of trickery with shimano as people have a tendency to use names interchangeably for the group sets that evolved into other groups.  I only allowed parts that were branded as the group I’m looking for:

105- $195.  $47 cranks, $35 shifters, $35 rear, $33 brakes, $30 levers (golden arrow, no less), $15 front (like it should be.)

600- $206  $60 cranks, $48 brakes, $30 shifters (arabesque,) $30 rear, $22 levers, $16 front.  Package deal available for $299.

Dura Ace- $278   $71 cranks, $60 rear, $60 shifter, $50 brakes, $20 front, $17 lever.  Package deal for $485 for the impatient and imprudent.

Ultegra - $305  $150 brifters, $60 brakes, $40 rear, $35 cranks (sometimes it is cheaper to buy it now,) $20 front.  $220 package available minus the cranks. 

Like I said, perception.  Notice the wide price spray, especially the disparity between Campy and Shimano.  I know Shimano isn’t as crafty as Campy but for prices this lopsided you’d expect Shimano to amputate your foot and Campy to get you into Harvard.  And you can hook yourself up with Dura Ace which ranks higher than Ultegra for cheaper.

Viscount Lambert Aeropostale rip off

http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/bik/3936854405.html
Road Bicycle Viscount Lambert 60 CM [6' to 6'5"] - $195 (st.petersburg)

Viscount Lambert Aeropostale Road Bike 60 CM for 6' to 6'5" hand made in England Shift at Handle Bars with price to sell cheap.$195 

 

Another Viscount popping up.  To refresh, these were cheap bikes of odd design that Sheldon Brown points out are cursed with both tubing prone to cracking and the so called "fork of death," an aluminum steerer tube  tacked to a steel fork that was very prone to failure.  

And again, even without those safety issues, the bike comes in overpriced.  I think it must be the 'rarity' of these that makes people list them so high.  This is a perfect example as to how irrelevant rarity is.  You dont see them because they were dangerous to keep riding, and most of them probably wound up on a heap.  You might like to replace the fork as a project to get practice, but even then there isn't must to want to keep here.  This bike would have to be priced under $50 to be a buy.

Atala Dutch Style bike

Beautiful "Atala" Woman's Bike
Made in Milano (Italy), Cesare Rizzato Padova Italy
Three Speed Sturmey Archer (England)
Tires Original and a bit weather checked (Austrian)
Pletsher Collapsible Cargo Baskets (Switzerland)
"Superlux" Generator Light (Italy)
Has a Full Chain Guard (Very Rare)
Rides Very Nice. Very Unique First $100.00

Atala tends to be the cheap bike that looks nice.  Women's model is a misnomer you see a lot for most step through models.  Dutch style would probably be a more apt title, the idea that you can mount and dismount a bike with greater ease/more restrictive pants.  As a guy I would be very happy to ride this bike.  Lots of extras considering the rack, collapsing paniers, headlight and full fenders.  Nice looks, full chain case even though it's a little beat up, internal hub.  The bars show no rust, not even the shifter clamp.  Great price.

Rixe Tandem

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bid/3922049762.html
Vintage 1957 Rixe Tandem Bicycle West Germany - $300 (Pottstown Pa )

 Vintage 1957 Rixe Tandem Bicycle. Made in West Germany GREAT PROJECT !

Not that I know anything about it but restoring a 50's West German Tandem seems like one of the most singularly frustrating pursuits you could undertake.  But look at that wacky construction, those gas pipe head lugs.  Another beautiful cottered crank.  And Durex, just like the condom. 

Raleigh Portage (not that Portage)

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/3921445294.html
Vintage Raleigh Portage MTB/Cruiser - Very Clean - 20" - $165 (Abington)

 For sale is a very interesting and rare vintage early 80's Raleigh mountain bike. While I doubt this lugged steel rig has ever climbed any mountains, it certainly can serve well as a cruiser on road or packed trail, and I have it set up that way having replaced the original tires (in the picture) with some new Conti Town & Country 1.95's.

It's a 12 speed (2x6) friction shift with a full Suntour group.

This Portage is not to be confused with the 650 Portage touring bike as this bike was made and sold in Canada by Raleigh Canada and sold at Duke's Sports. The store still exists and right on the seat tube is the sticker with the same phone number 30 years later (I googled it....right on their website). It can be compared most closely to the U.S. build Mountain Peak line of early mountain bikes from the same time period like the Crested Butte and Seneca.

I bought this from someone who found it at an estate sale and it was a true barn find. Mechanically it works just fine, shifting through all of the gears well. The cantilever breaks are good and overall the drive train is super clean. Cosmetically I spent several hours detailing it and it really looks great with all of the chrome shining up nicely as you can see in the pictures. The bike is 100% original except for the tires, and if you are into it, I kept the originals just to preserve the vintage aspect of it. They are also in good original shape and very usable.

Overall a very cool and fully functional bike. You gotta love the bull moose bars!

I do love those bull moose bars, it's one of the things that infatuates me with the mid 80s Raleigh mountain bike line he brings up.  And good play to him for just pointing out right away that this is not the top of the line touring Portage, but rather a cheap Raleigh of Canada mountain bike.  He does take some poetic license bringing up the Crested Butte or the Seneca, which were the top two mountain models.  If this was in that pack it would fall even below their lowest rung Wyoming, and indeed even a little further down the ladder.  It's just a cheap bike made of cheap pipe with cheap parts.  He also incorrectly identifies the brakes as cantis, those center pulls would problematic wet going down a rocky path.

But This isn't a bad bike, just a cheap one.  It's actually accidentally way more in line with a hybrid back before there were hybrids.  It's a few tweaks away, maybe better brakes and 700c wheels.  The double eyelets and thumbies make the bike stand out from others you might not save from the trash heap, this could serve double purpose of a beater you like to work on and a bad weather/errand bike.  $165 is a bit much, around $100 is better.

Gianni Motta

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/bik/3924128147.html
Vintage 1982 Gianni Motta Personal - $1600 (Kansas City, MO)

 1982 vintage road bike. This Italian-made bicycle was likely custom ordered and imported by an American as the company was not exporting them in bulk. I have been in possession of the bike since 1989. It is in fair to excellent shape. The frame and parts are all intact and function properly (no dents, scratches). The frame has a few paint nicks around the chain from standard use. Altogether, the frame and the Campagnolo Super Record parts are a premium for any vintage enthusiast. The original Campagnolo Super Record parts follow:

Crank shaft, front and rear sprockets, front and rear changers, front and rear brakes, seat post, pedals, and shifters.

The bike is a 10-speed. It measures roughly 23 inches or 58 centimeters center to center. If one desired a completely unique fixed-gear foundation this bike is it.

Gianni Motta was a bike racer of some renown who founded a bike company after his career ended in the mid 70s.  The frame material is probably some kind of Columbus tubing, and the unity of the group set indicates a higher end model.  A really great looking bike and a total head turner.  I think bikes designed by former racers are the most comfortable, but $1600 isn't a great value.  Thats used custom money, when this is in fact a production bike.  I shudder at the idea of turning this into a fixie.  

Giordana Polaris

http://humboldt.craigslist.org/bik/3915817623.html
Giordana Italian Lugged Steel Road Bike - $425 (Eureka)

Giordana Polaris Steel Lugged frame, 59cm size. Columbus SLX Superbutted tubing. This frame was top of the line Italian racing frame in 1993. Shows it's patina but still a great ride. Not show quality but no major flaws. A classic steel ride that is timeless.
Shimano Dura Ace deraileurs
8 speed rear, 39 x 52 front. 175 mm Shimano 600 crank set.
Shimano Dura Ace index shifters and brake levers. Not down tube shifters.
Ultegra rear hub with Velocity rim (Newer build), Velomax front wheel.
Cyclocomputer, pedals (SPD) included.
Good tires, rear Hutchinson is new.
$425.00

A good day for red bikes.  Great styling, Shimano should've stuck with their old style badging.  Nice componants and frame materials.  This was a rider for someone and you benefit, it's already converted to brifters and the wheels/tires are updated. 

Cannondale SR 900

http://goldcountry.craigslist.org/bik/3916711968.html
Cannondale Road Bike SR 900 Campagnolo - $325 (Grass Valley)

 1985 Cannondale SR 900 Campagnolo groupset,Cinelli bars and stem.56 cm,New Tires,New bar tape,New Cables and casings,New Seat,22 pounds,Lots of goodies on this cool classic.Some chips on paint other than that it's in very good condition tuned and ready to ride. $325 obo

The SR 900 was Cannondale's top model for 1985, originally retailing for $995.  It looks entirely original except for the seat, which for a bike of this age is pretty rare.  Seems to be in pretty good shape except for paint chips.  The Cannondale paint from this era seems especially prone to chipping, but on the bright side the gloss is pretty easy to cover with stuff like nail polish.  The cranks are super record, the shifters and deraillers are NR, and the bars are Cinelli.  Vintage Cannondale road bikes always run high, and they're nice rides.  It's not unusual to see entry level Cannondales at $300 so this should get snapped up as a deal so someone doesn't part it out.  Just by way of example there is an '85 SR 600 with Shimano Acera on it for $25 more two listings down from this one. 

Rich Gangl Custom

http://denver.craigslist.org/bik/3872261142.html
Gangl road bike - $1100 (littleton)

A chromealloy frame built by Rich Gangl in approx 1992. Frame size 23 inches......58 cm...mavic head set.....pedals not included.......cash only....no checks/paypal....no...."i will have my agent pick it up scam"....local only

Custom builder, cute heart cutouts in the lugs.  A really odd mix of hideous componants for a pretty steel frame.  I guess this guy is a bit of a racer and that does something to your aesthetic sensibility.

Zeus

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/bik/3870919595.html
Zeus Vintage Road Bike RARE! - $300 (Fort collins)

This Road bike is in ok condition. Just had Brand new cyclocross tires put on it. This bike is number 373 off the line. paid over 750$ 5 months ago. Hit a curb and have no time to fix it. all bearings are brand new and everything works great except for the front forks are slightly bent, and the wheel is slightly bent as well. I loved this bike just no time or money to fix it. if you look around and research these bikes you will find that some are expensive if they are the right make and model.. The saddle, bearing, frame and crankshaft are well worth over what I am asking.

There is, to put it nicely, 6 feet of bullshit going on here.  Zeus is a collectable bike brand founded in Spain in the 1920s.  The firm made everything that could go on a bike and were either a Campy competitor or a Campy clone depending on your point of view.  So for age, innovation, and an obsessive sense of completeness some of these bikes have become very rare, very hot ticket items. 

I'm willing to use the word dishonest with how this bike is being presented.  It seems very unlikely that you would buy a such a gem, slap cross tires on it and then start jumping curbs.  He implies that the right make and model (but he left out condition which is pretty damn important too, but we'll get to that) are expensive without actually stating that this is one of them.  He also doesn't go down the parts list or give you any decent pictures.  He also seems to think you can part out a bearing regrease and includes it in the value.  It's true that Zeus has sought after models out there but I dont think this is one of them, and the seller is trying to make you think otherwise.  No odd shapes or tooling in the parts as far as we can see, no drillium, not good look at the drop outs or fork crown, in short nothing that makes you really look when you see Zeus bikes.

He loves the bike but he didn't bother to seat the chain or take any decent pictures.  He also left the leather saddle on it when presumably he'd be riding in weather on those knobby wheels.  But lets talk about condition.  A bent fork and a bent wheel?  And he has the balls to say "ok" condition.  It's unrideable and will continue to be so without a lot of money dropped into it.  The prospect of cold working (read: Bend) the fork back into shape is daunting and then you have to buy a new rim.  If you want to keep it original you have to get your Zeus hub (if they're still on here, they almost definitely arent) relaced too.  So hopefully you can bend a fork AND lace a wheel.  The bottom bracket has a suspicious area too.   

I think he picked up or was tricked into buying a thrashed bike and is trying to get out easy.  Dont be dumb.

Jeunet

http://decatur.craigslist.org/bik/3882191956.html
1970s Jeunet road bike - $50 (clinton)

Have for sale a vintage 1970s Jeunet ,cool old French bike from the early 70s, needs tires , has a working tire pump still on it , all gears shift and work ,front brake cable needs some work ,still moves. Back brake works as it should. these bikes bring good money on e-bay, needs restored ,but with a little work could be road worthy, $50.00 or best offer, send contact info and I will get back with you.

The first picture is a good example of how not to photograph a bike for sale.  But anyway, if you were looking for practice at stripping down a bike for a good cleaning and generally different ways you can bring a bike back with minimal expense this would be a great candidate.  Also if you want to tinker, frakenstein or otherwise butcher and experiment on a bike, this is the one.  These were better than the average bear bike boom models and it's encouraging that it came with toe clips and cotterless cranks.  It isn't a sure thing, if the rims are rotted out or the bottom bracket/headset doesn't turn you'd have to put more money into this than the beater it turns out would be worth, but otherwise it's complete and cheap and can be treated as such. It would probably be especially good if you want to mess around with painting. 

Rossin

http://hattiesburg.craigslist.org/bik/3861255826.html
Rossin vintage Italian Road Bike - $600 (laurel)

Tons of Campagnolo parts.
New Brooke's Saddle.
Kept indoors

The gears started to slip on me so I started ridding another bike. Body has some rust but nothing on the inside. This one has just been sitting in my house.

I think this is an early '80s model, maybe a Record.  Some of the Rossin's I've seen have full chromed rear triangles and are just overall more flashy.  Sheldon Brown points out that some of the Rossin's made for the expert market carried more of these touches, while the domestically Italian Rossin's were more toned down.  Rossin came about from an amateur race team in the late '70s who rode Colnago, but when Colnago pulled their sponsorship midseason to go for another team the team managers decided they would produce bikes that could be competitive.  They hired a long time Colnago shop manager and started Rossin.  Also, they invented the disc track wheel. 

This guy dropped the price from $700 after having listed it for a few days.  "Tons of Campy" but it might be nice if he listed it out.  The cranks look like campy NR but you dont get a good look, and I cant see what the rear mech is.  The front derailler and shifters are, the headset is, the brakes are Suntour Superbe.  So if it has one Japanese part, it may have more.  And even if the rear derailler is campy NR too it was slipping on him enough to stop riding.  That doesn't make a lot of sense, as you could fix that with a screw driver, or swap the part pretty easily.  This is a lot like the custom from earlier today, he's not riding it for a reason and that reason may be the same reason that makes you stop riding it.  You would suspect Columbus tubing but it isn't specified.  I've never ridden Colnago or Rossin so I cant say how they compare.  It's certainly a nice looking bike but some very big paint chips that have rusted, maybe you've fallen for it. 

Stan Johnson Custom

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/bik/3906258894.html
Stan Johnson Custom road bike - $450 (Kailua)

Got a custom built Stan Johnson frame by Stan himself out of Oxnard CA... This is a highly sought after custom builder that has since stopped making bikes after moving to CO. This is a mid 90's frame with Columbia drop outs. It's a large size and needs a tune up and some new components but over all in decent condition. These frames can go for $600 by themselves. It's a bit too big for me and just looking to pass on a good deal.

C-T measurement is 63cm, TT is 54cm and stem tube is 22cm

Presented in my effort to document custom builders.  Really clean looking lugs, good paint, nice frame material.  There's also a strange thing going on with this seller.  This bike has been mothballed for awhile, the chain is totally rusted out and the back brake looks pretty ragged too.  Exage brakes but no word on the other componants, road double crank.  Bizarro bar set up.  And the frame is too big but that seat is all jacked up.  I wonder if this was a mail order gone wrong, or maybe carried better stuff and was stripped down before being put away.  The reason why he hasn't ridden it may play into whether or not it's a good buy.

American Arrow

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/bik/3891621746.html
Rare Vintage American Arrow Road Bike- Dura Ace & Simplex - $225 (Concord- Exit 54)

Very rare 53.5cm American Arrow Mark II-a road bike. This is the "Made in Germany" version, not the cheaper one that was made in Belgium. It is early 70's, not sure of the exact year. The Mark II-a uses Shimano Dura Ace brakes and brake levers, (hard to find flat bar lever is still on the bike), Simplex friction derailleurs, Rigida wheels with screw on quick release hubs, original Coureur saddle in perfect condition. Bike has original tires too, but I'd recommend replacing them. Rear tube just gave up, but front is still holding air well. I'll probably pick up a tube for the rear and install it in the next day or so.

Frame/paint are in great condition, a couple scratches but no dents/rust etc. Wheels are in great condition, braking surfaces are nearly new. Bike rides and shifts great, (before the rear tube popped), geometry is much like a vintage Italian road bike with a "longish" top tube that's comfortable and really accommodating for a wide range of riders.

If you're looking for a cool vintage bike you can't beat this one. it gets a lot of attention for both it's rarity and it's condition.

It's hard to find a lot on these bikes and he says pretty much what you can find.  These bikes were made in West Germany or Belgium with a mix of parts and ironcally called American Arrow.  He's presenting this as a high end bike but I think it's probably closer to mid/mid low range.  Stem shifters, big chunky lugs, pie plate, steel cottered cranks.  The frame is probably a heavier gauge too.  He's making a point of the Dura Ace brakes but this actually predates Dura Ace as a full group, so it's difficult to take these as the same commodity.  The center pull version with a safety lever indicates it's the cheaper version of the part, not the side pull race brakes that would've been on the highest range of bikes. 

It's a hideous bike with cheapish stuff on it.  The drop outs look like they're made out of potato chip.  But, it is an uncommon bike and I'm intruiged by the long top tube.  I need a long top tube to be comfortable on a bike and if you're like me the comfort of stretching out adds value to a frame.  Certainly not enough value, the bike is about $100 overpriced for my taste, but it's something to consider.