Friday, May 31, 2013

High Hopes

http://nashville.craigslist.org/bik/3789897814.html
MARIN PALISADES,TRAIL OVERSIZE,HIGH END HYBRID

I HAVE A MARIN PALISADES,TRAIL TANGE OVERSIZE WITH CROSS ROAD TIRES,
SCHIMANO BRAKES,PEDALS CHAIN WHEELS,GEARS,
YELLOW AND PURPLE,
WORKS GREAT,
ORIGINAL COST OVER $1500,00 NEW
GREAT CONDITION,
MAKE ME AN OFFER
ALSO OPEN TO TRADES,REALLY WANT IPHONE 5 32 OR 64GIG,
THANKS

I like older Marin's.  There's definately a philosophy at work there.  The early 90s models were so god awful neon ugly, too.  They seem to mix their paint and model years too.  For example, this is a 1991 paint combo on a 1992 model.  I'm not quite sure if the pant was heald over or the model came out early.  But it should be a Shimano 300 drive train mixed with Ritchey and Marin branded parts.  Oversized tange tubing.  It's a mid to mid low bike, but sturdy and that era mid to mid low got you a lot more than it does now.  I have no idea where he got $1500 MSRP from.  Even so, that would be 20 years ago, but there's no way in holy hell it cost that much.  For both 91 and 92 Marin specifically describes this as a reasonably priced, value oriented model.  The current gen Palisades Trail doesn't cost $1500 and it's got disc brakes.  I'd offer him $125 and I might go to $150 under the right circumstances.

PX-10 Liar!

http://athensga.craigslist.org/bik/3836411396.html
Peugeot PX10 Road Bike - $225 (Toccoa, GA)


The frame is a Peugeot PX10. The handle bars are sawed off and taped. The rear hub is set up for fixed and single speed. There is only a front brake, and there are front and rear fenders.


No it's not.  PX-10's were Peugeot's commercial copy of the bikes their races were riding to victory all over the 70's, including the beloved Eddy Merckx.  They have become hot collectors items but since at the height of their popularity Peugeot also got very ambiguous with their labeling the market is rife with imposters and forgeries.  They also made very similar "Semi Professional" models with slight variations. 

So how can we tell?  Two really glaring issues right of the bat are the lugs and the chrome.  This bike has a chrome fork crown and fork ends, but the drop outs and chain stays are painted, on a real PX-10 they also would've been chrome.  The biggest, absolutely instantly recognizeable disqualification though are those lugs.  PX-10's were most famously built with Nervex Professional lugs.  Some of them were built with plain Nervex lugs but this Aztec style lug were reserved for only the lowest end models. 

That also means this bike wouldn't be Reynolds 531 tubing and with a little practice I'll bet you can tell the difference when you pick it up, especially on the much lower grade this bike was.  Built up you might have some doubt but as a bare frame I think the weight difference would really stand out, too. 

The whole point of the PX-10 though was it represented a nationalist synergy that couldn't really be recaptured.  Stronglight, Simplex, Mallaird, Normandy, Leotard, Mayfac.  When you denude a bike of its' parts you dont have the bike anymore, no matter what the sticker says.  Really, thank god this knuckle head didn't turn an original PX-10 into a fixie.  He isn't killing anyone on the price, but misinformation is misinformation. 

Thursday, May 30, 2013

That's the Spirit

http://gainesville.craigslist.org/bik/3836779413.html
Vintage steel townie - $60 (University and 34th)


Selling an '86 Puch townie. 27" wheels/tires. comes with working lights, rear twin folding baskets, bell and a lock cable. its a medium size frame - I'm 5'7" and I ride it as pictured. Shimano stem shifters. 7 speed indexed rear, 2 speed friction front. Rear derailleur works great. Front cable/derailleur need to be adjusted. Brake cables need the housing shortened as I switched to newer levers. Spray painted after I rebuilt it and also comes with touch up paint! A few minutes tune up work gets you a much nicer bike than the Walmart special and the baskets and lights alone cost the asking price.

Really good effort here, I'm assuming he picked up a somewhat neglected Puch cheap and repurposed it with inexpensive/leftover parts from other builds.  As you go you can slap better/more specific parts to suit your need.  It looks like that freewheel might be somewhat new, too.  At $60 there's very little room for regret even if your bottom bracket turns into a cement mixer after 6 weeks.  Speaking of I'd like to get a better look at that crank, it looks nice, you might be getting a bargain. 

Perfect Peugeot Mixte

http://gainesville.craigslist.org/bid/3835125074.html
1980 Peugeot Curved Mixte 3-Speed Townie - $320 (235 nw 8th ave)



Minty 1980 Peugeot Townie. French made cromoly steel curved mixte with excellent paint and decals. 3-speed Sachs internal shifting hub with coaster brake. 700c Rigida wheels. Perfect fenders drilled for skirt guard, integrated rack, original bell. Working generator lighting system. New Schwalbe Delta Cruisers. Well preserved and great riding French classic. Stop by The 8th ave Bike & Coffee House to test ride or talk bikes.

Bike & Coffee House, I can get behind that.  That chainguard is perfect, really amazingly perfect.  The headlight is too, like a giant hood ornament, 9 billion spoke wheels, gleaming fenders.  So French.  The thing I love about bikes like this is everywhere it's all geometric it's a big busy clash of straight, hard lines, and everywhere it's curved it's simple and clean.  A dress guard would be a fantastic edition

Wednesday, May 29, 2013

Faces of Rare

http://lexington.craigslist.org/bik/3808969736.html
Rare Schwinn Collegiate 3 - $120 (UK Campus)

Schwinn internal 3 speed road bike 18" frame its a rare find

Since I was talking about rarity here are two examples of salesmanship.  Presented without irony is a "Rare Schwinn Collegiate" which is probably one of if not the single most common bike on the used market. 

http://lexington.craigslist.org/bik/3822076215.html
RARE Vintage 1970's Sekine 10 Speed (Ten Speed) Road Bike - $125 (Downtown Lex)


I have never seen another Sekine in my life, and I am an avid bike spotter.
This bike was constructed on a joint venture between Canadian and Japanese bike manufactures.

It features:
-A versatile medium sized frame (54-56cm). Good for both guys and girls of average height
-A sturdy lugged steel frame
-Original Shimano Components, including drop-tube shifters
-Alloy handlebar stem
-Engraved drop bars
-27" Continental Ultra Tires
-Aluminum Quick-Release front wheel
-The most unique engraved pie plate I've ever seen
-A brand new Planet Bike comfort seat

It's true, I haven't ever seen one of these either.  All the signs point to low end and maybe department store bikes.  Sekines were  a Japanese company that wound up producing bikes in Canada to avoid import tariffs to the US.  This would have been one of their lowest models.  Again, uncommon but not rare.  You can bet any company that's going to open a factory in North America specifically for the import market did not intend to be anything short of ubiquitous. 

You have to admire their bravado, they sold themselves as the finest bicycles ever made.  And turning that dorky pie plate into a selling point is something else, it wouldn't stop me from pulling it off but hey, nice shot.  Everything about this bike is cheap but part of the fun of the secondary market is picking up oddball stuff and messing around with it, which you could certainly do here.

Interesting Motobecane Gran Tourismo

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/bik/3833073278.html
Motobecane Touring Bike - $575 (West Chester)


Just in time for summer time riding! Very Nice Motobecane Gran Tourismo Touring Bicycle. Built from high quality components for touring. Very nice riding bike for someone over 6 feet tall. Ritchey triple crank (24,36,46 tooth cranks, all original ritchey mountain bike) 175mm crank arms. Mavic 217 rims (great for touring and heavey loads) Suntour Superbe seat post. Avocet saddle. Tektro brake levers. Uno handle bar. Suntour Bar Con bar end Shifters. Shimano Deore DX front and rear derailleurs. Bike frame is set up to mount bag racks for touring. Stand over height 34"

$575 obo

I tend to make assumptions about people based on their bike ads.  I cant decide what this guy's deal is.  This is a newer frame probably bought somewhere like bikes direct but he's put older cranks and deraillers on it.  Part of me thinks he's good at fabricating decent bikes from new and new old stock products and selling them on, but the size and set up are so specific I think he might have built it for himself.  Usually I lean to the guy didn't get much use out of it, but the decisions seem to be made by an experienced rider with specific, if odd, tastes.  I appreciate odd tastes.

Good parts all around, older Deore stuff back when Deore was on the higher end production bikes.  Ritchey mountain bike cranks so probably very durable, fenders and fat marathon tires.  Frame is cro mo even though it looks aluminum. My own personal favorite brake levers, and bar ends which are my preferred shifter. You could probably ride this bike all day and not feel it in your back, which I suppose is the point.  If this was this guys personal ride I'd like to see his other bikes, if he built this up to sell I'd like to see his other projects.  Who knew Cincinnati would yield all the good craigslist bikes?

So worth it if you like this set up and are like 6'4, but you're paying for quality. 

Cannondale Sport Tourer, more Sport than Tourer

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/bik/3822274512.html
80's Cannondale Touring/Commuter Road Bike 56cm - $300 (Colerain)

This is a 1980's Cannondale Touring/Commuter Road Bike. It is in great shape and has been tuned up. The brake pads and handlebar tape is brand new. The tires were also recently replaced. The bike is a 18 speed (Triple Crank with 6 Speed Freewheel). It has cantilever brakes and the shift system is a Suntour XCM with index and friction option. It is a 56cm frame with a 55cm top tube. This bike will make a great touring/commuter bike as it is equipped with 700 x 32 tires. Serious inquiries only. Local pick up only. I will not ship this bike so do not email me if that is what you are going to ask me to do.

This appears to be either an '89 or '90 ST-400, leaning more to '90.  Cannondale ran a line of touring models from the mid 80s to the early 90s typically the 400, 600 and 1000.  The 400 was the low end model and the 1000 was the true touring bike.  Still, this bike has a wide range triple crank and canti brakes.  That's actually what makes it so attractive to me, it's essentially a vintage road bike aping modern road bikes completely by accident.  If you're in the market for a new bike and aren't at all charmed by anachronism, but never the less have resorted to the secondary market out of price concerns, this is about as good as you're going to do.  Even a low end Cannondale is made of some pretty solid parts, it's a reasonable aluminum frame, it looks 100 times better than anything else in your price range, a nice range of gears and lots of stopping power.  Plus, fat tires for a road bike which would be good to learn on, once you're habitually using the 50 tooth chainring zipping all over the place you can bump it down to 23s and maybe fit some fenders so you dont spray road grime up your ass.  The tires were actually what caught my eye, I was wondering how he fit that size, only to discover someone has done some converting here.  According to the catalog these were built with 27 inch rims instead of 700c, which would explain where that extra tire clearance is coming from.

It's also right in the meat of sizing, so it's gonna fit a good segment of the population and should sell quickly.  Cannondales are always a bit expensive, hold your breath and you might do better, but the $50 you'd save is justified by new tires and the more sympathetic rim size. 

Bridgestone XO-5 X 2

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/bik/3799013631.html
Rare Bridgestone Bike Bicycles

I have 2 rare Bridgestone bicycles for sale. These are hard to find and there weren't very many made. One has been ridden once and the other three times. They are basically new, as you can tell from the pictures. Both are model XO-5. One comes with a water bottle and one has a rack on the back of it. Very cool bikes. These were very expensive when I purchased them at a bike shop in my area. One is mine and the other is my wife's. Both have been sitting in my garage for a long time! Asking $250 each. Please send an email with you name and phone number and I will contact you if you are interested!


First off, you'll just have to click the link for the images because they wont resize any better than that.  Lots of sticky areas here, we're dropping names, rarity, and value.  So one by one, shall we?  If you want to read original Bridgestone material, please click here: http://sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/

These are indeed Bridgestone X0-5s, which were Grant Peterson's approach to the maligned 'hybrid' style of bicycle.  They're considered the forerunners of what he would go on to do at Rivendell, building bikes where safety, quality and comfort would not be sacrificed to performance.  The XO series was produced for two years and featured models 1-5, with the XO-1 being the most idiosyncratic and the XO-5 being the most compromised, typical hybrid.  The higher end XO series were lugged, Peterson being a vocal proponant of lugged steel to this day, and the XO-5 was tig welded.  So, undeniably these are bikes that are associated with prestige in the history of bike making, but Bridgestone is more remembered for the design innovations that were sadly left out here. 

Everyone likes to say 'rare bike.'  There's an often trampled difference between rare and uncommon.  You might not see a Mini Cooper every day but that doesn't change the fact that there are a billion of them out there.  It's generally hard to say with certainty how rare a bike is, and if you look at the market long enough you'll get a sense of what brands and models are in circulation.  But Bridgestone takes some of the guess work out of it and just lets us know via the catalog that the production run for 1993 was 6,900 bikes.  So, there you go.  I have seen XO bikes come up for sale before and at decent prices.  My friend was looking for a bike for his wife at the same time an XO-3 Mixte for $135 came up locally and I begged him to buy it, which he didn't.  But being a smaller/collectable brand you're not going to see these as often, they have greater purchase of the word 'rare,' but on this end of the range it's still probably safer to say uncommon.

Guy also says he paid a lot, and Bridgestone takes care of that too because they actually list prices in their catalogs.  He paid around $450 in 1993 or 1994 dollars.  He is now trying to sell them for $250.  For a hybrid bike that is a pretty great retention of value on his part.  But these are a reputable company with componants that are comprable to what you'd buy new on a hybrid now.  They design is better too, and if you want to sell it you should enjoy a similar retention of value if they're taken care of.  If these are indeed as pristine as advertised these are a pretty great deal, and you should buy them.  It's just a shame that they aren't that Bridgestone you were hoping for.

A funny side note, in the intro to the XO series they write about how people tend to start out on road or mountain bikes, and pick up a hybrid later, which seems to be the exact opposite of what you see now. 

Sunday, May 26, 2013

Two Trek 800's

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/3816316001.html
Vintage trek 800 ----16 inch frame---- - $120 (langhorne)

 Vintage trek 800

16 inch frame made from tange 5 chromoly steel. Shamino shift levers and shamino derailers, quick release wheels with araya alloy rims. Sakae SX triple crankset.

This is a neat old mountain bike from the 80s. It's in pretty good shape but does have some cosmetic flaws, it rides great though, all of the gears shift smoothly and the brakes stop strong. This frame has all of the braze-ons for racks and fenders, it even has low rack mounts on the front fork. This would make an excellent commuter bike or even a touring bike. It is a small frame, perfect for some one from 5' to 5'7"

 http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/3816170966.html
Trek Antelope Mountain Bike - $135 (Doylestown, PA)
 Great basic mountain bike. Rides well and in good condition. Good for trail riding, or just knocking around

I think you can find a lot of value in Treks, and here are two great examples.  These were marketed as all terrain bikes and they're the forerunners to what became the hybrid bicycle.  This is the difference between '88 and '91.  With the '88 you get front rack mounts and a 6 speed freewheel, the '91 loses the mounts and gains a cog.  The '88 would make a great conversion to a city/town bike with racks, fenders and faster tires. If you're currently in the market for a hybrid either one would serve you very well.  

Friday, May 24, 2013

Gitane Folder

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/bik/3771372059.html


3-spd. 20'' tires all original except for new tires/tubes
good to restore or just ride....folds in half
this bike was custom made in France
I was told about 1953-54 and worth $350-400
i'm asking $135 or best offer

Look at this handsome little French bastard, he's got a full chain case too.  And an adorable little rack.  You should check the link for the decals which are great, particularly the Made in France rooster.  It needs a good cleaning.  Is 135$ a good price?  No idea, I know next to nothing about folding bikes, I just like them.  

Old Chap

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/bik/3825725959.html

1952 Raleigh Sports Bike Duno Battery Pack oil bath CG Original - $200 (Churchland Suffolk)
 1952 Raleigh Sports with Duno Hub glass lense head light oil bath chain guard and Battery Pack. Very original bike, seat leather is hard, original paint looks very nice bike, has original rear John Bull tire. Some peppering on chrome and needs the shifter insert for cable on the frame clamp installed. Has not been on the road in 30 years. $200

I dont know what the hell he's saying about the shifter cable.  I've gotten really into full chain cases lately.  Like I've said I'm a sucker for Raleigh styling.  The close up pictures reveal some minor rust that should scrub off and some amazingly solid paint.   For $200 and some elbow grease you could be the most twee cyclist on the block.  Will make a great Sunday rider for someone.

Deception

http://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/3809811831.html

1970 atala giro d.italia hand made in italy - $199 (Chester va)

 Presented for sale without much comment.  My initial impression was really positive, I knew Atala made some high end bikes and assumed that they wouldn't bother to put such elaborate lugs on their low end models.  But when you're looking at vintage bikes make sure you're seeing everything.  For example, the cottered cranks and giant pie plate. 
A little research turns up the 1970 catalog.  This model was bottom of the line Hi Tensile steel.  They basically made two tiers of bikes, the top tier was all campy and columbus, and the bottom tier were unspecified cottered cranks and simplex prestige drive trains.  Prestige was Simplex' experiment with all plastic parts in the mid 60's that did not go well. 
I dont have anything against Hi Ten frames, the extra weight can be negligible, but for $200 you should expect cro mo.  It's a great looking bike, a cheap bike that looks expensive, unfortunately ruined by the price tag.  At $125 or less it would have nothing but potential, swapping out the cheap components or stripping it down for, god help me, fixed gear. 
One pet peeve, why does anyone list their bikes without the size? 

Raleigh Kodiak

http://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/3825661891.html

Raleigh kodiak touring bike 59 60 cm triple cantis - $350 (08904)

 Raliegh kodiak touring bike . true tour bike with triple chain ring and cantilever brakes. 700c wheels with bontrager 28c tour tires. pannier mounts fender mounts front and back. tuned and cleaned.

Raleigh had a range of touring bicycles in the mid 80s headlined by the Portage, which you will never see anywhere ever, and followed right up by the Kodiak.  Both had Reynolds 555 tubing, cantilever brakes, triple cranks and the appropriate mounts.  The two main differences were the Portage had 650B wheels instead of 700c and deore shifters. 
This is a semi exotic find as it's a true touring bike.  Most Grand Tourers were just 10 speeds with built in racks.  While $350 is probably appropriately priced I'm amazed it isn't up for more all things considered.  I have a soft spot for the Raleigh's styling and under different circumstances I probably would've jumped at this. 

Heart of Darkness

http://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/3826608590.html

Univega Gran Premio: good shape, almost all original, 50cm frame. $150 obo cash only

Like I said, Central Jersey.  The full bike picture is the only one included with the ad which is a shame because it may have those great keyhole cut lugs in the top picture. The Gran Premio was close to the top of their line and if it was called a Miyata they'd be asking another $100 for it. Did I mention Univega and Miyata are the same company?  Looks mostly original and probably has a Suntour drive train and Sugino cranks.  Probably Tange tubing.  A real steal and $150 and even better if you can make an offer.   50cm, something for the ladies in your life. Just cover up the dorky Univega decal on the downtube.

Thursday, May 23, 2013

A tale of two Bridgestones

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/bik/3783902360.html
Come and get it! Must Sell IMMEDIATELY. Frame size will fit riders up to 5'8. White Sticker on down tube will come off easily. near Dunn Loring metro- walkable. I have other bikes too. Come on out. Bike is ride-ready but the wheels could be trued and that would be a good thing to do. My friend has a shop and he charges $10 per wheel to true. So you you will have $79 total in the bike and you will have one sweet ride.


DC Craigslist is a warren for the over priced.  I guess it's a monied area.  Central Jersey is a monied area too but you actually see a lot of reasonable deals on nice bikes there.  But this is a good little cruiser and actually cheap, especially considering the fat fenders, nice little front rack and headlight.  Probably turtle slow, a million pounds, and indestructable.  Nice he tries to throw his wheel truing buddy a little business.  He knows a guy who owns a spoke wrench so he can hook you up.  You should own a spoke wrench and watch a 30 second youtube tutorial on how to spot true wheels.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/bik/3813211757.html

rare early 90s Bridgestone Citylimit CB0 or CBzip, one of Sheldon Browns favorite bikes - 52cm Tange double butted cromoly frame with Bi-Plane crown fork - all Shimano LX components with XT rear deraileur, Sugino crank, Syncros bar and stem, alloy seatpost with WTB saddle, quick release alloy wheelset with pavement style tires - very nice bike for someone around 5'6''- 5'8''


Now there's the overpriced DC craigslist we know.  $350 for a mountain bike, which if it was called a mountain bike would probably pull half that. It's a great mountain bike, dont get me wrong and considering the market probably not an awful deal where it sits.  You could put fenders and fat tires on it.  You could put mustache handlebars on it and basically mock up your own Bridgestone XO series.  Pavement tires he says?  Which pavement?  He name checks Sheldon Brown which I think is a requirement if you're selling a Bridgestone or a Miyata 1000 frame with no original componants.  Again, look at that fork crown.  It's nearly art deco.

Forks over Knives

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2013/05/pass-hunter-photos.html
Velo Orange has been teasing their new frame, the Pass Hunter. 


It reminds me of the coveted Tom Ritchey designed fork Bridgestone used in the early 90s.  Both really great looking, I will probably buy a Pass Hunter this fall when they come out.  I will probably buy a 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 and rub it with a diaper. 

Fix Shit Up


Selling my Miyata Fixie, two tone powder coated
Built completely out of parts that last, Been riding this bike everyday for about a year now.
Front rim, Weinman Deep V
Rear rim, is an Alex
Sakae crankset
FSA drop handle bars
Dimensions Stem
Tektro Breaks
vintage Panasonic Seat (most comfortable seat you will ever sit on)
Odyssey PC pedals (Iceblue)
Rear break is currently set up
Front break is tied back, Never ran a front

bike has normal city wear and tear, but nothing that effects performance.
Cheapest way to get a lot of nice parts and buy a extremely light fixed gear,

300 Open to offers but looking for cash only.
Selling because i have purchased a new bike for going cross county this summer, This money benefits my cross country documentation, Support my Artwork.
I am the one owner of this bike pictures were shot in philadelphia bikes here locally in Baltimore county


First things first, way to take a nice picture.  People post the shittiest pictures and it's nice to see someone make the effort, but I guess he's a documentarian.  But you lose points because you always should take the picture cranks out.  Everyone has a story.  Why do people feel so persecuted for selling things?  Like you wouldn't possibly want to sell something of value, selling can only be an action of passive aggression, throwing something out by proxy and trying to scam at the same time.  And as a buyer you wouldn't possibly recognize the difference between garbage and quality, so I need to explain to you how I truly love this object and the inescapable circumstances that have forced me to sell it.  I'm moving, I need to make rent, I hurt my back, I grew 5 inches, I'm making a documentary about my cross country biking trip.
A Miyata fixie two tone powder coated.  Is it still a Miyata? A philosophical question.  No badges and I'd guess the cranks are the only original componant.  We recognize bikes by name and attach a level of value to that but once you paint it and take off all the componants alls you're left with is the tubeset, which is probably just some sturdy Japanese cro mo, same as a Univega or Panasonic which are such hiddeous names you've already wrinkled your nose.  So no, I think a bike going fixie is kindof like joining a monestary, you must leave all your wordly trappings behind you.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the break lever set up.  The front lever must be there for some reason, but if it's for hand position wouldn't you want them on both sides?  I always find fixies to be over priced.  They're not really, because all these guys always buy new wheelsets and that's why they price them so high, but wasn't the whole point that these bikes were cheap and repurposed? 

The Handsome French

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/3789277878.html




One owner 1984 Motobecane Grand Touring

Frame is 63cm, 27" wheels, 10 speeds. All original except for new chain and tires. rides nice.

asking 275 obo.

Who doesn't love French bikes?  I haven't done a lot of research on them but it's my impression that the French didn't particularly care to make their high end and low end stuff look startingly different, which is a great commentary on the value of clean design but also plays hell in the secondary market.  That's why you see all those bogus PX-10's for sale.  It's got the wrong lugs and componants but the sticker says PX-10 and it's a black and white Peugot, good enough right? 
Anyway, for crappier componants $275 would be outrageous but Stronglight cranks, decent looking toe clips and pedals, a nice stem, leather saddle, what is probably a medium cage length rear derailleur (cant tell what brand exactly, maybe simplex but maybe shimano, s something anyway) and a nice looking drilled out I'm assuming Simplex front derailleur.  Love those fork crowns, why dont people make nice fork crowns anymore? As long as the bike was road worthy a really solid buy.  Please, save this from becoming some heathen fixie.